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Notting Hill Fire
14 June 2017 11:14 Post ID: #1539392 - in reply to #1539356
Legend MO
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khan is a 2 bob cunt certainly ain't in office for all Londoners!
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14 June 2017 11:36 Post ID: #1539393 - in reply to #1539356
Big MO
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truly shameful remarks about sadiqi khan - but I wouldn't expect anything less from some people on here

already many residents have been on telly saying they reported H&S concerns to the council and the private firm managing the building and were ignored - one even said they bullied him to shut him up

this will be corporate manslaughter - at a time when a dozen or more are dead to have pop at sadiq knan, when this is the culture of doing things on the cheap owing to cut backs to LA funding and privatisation of services with a view to redeveloping the area for the rich, is truly embarrassing.

This sort of thing is exactly why London voted Labour because the Tories don't give f@ck about the living standards of ordinary people. I suppose austerity is over now, now that it suits Theresa May.
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14 June 2017 11:42 Post ID: #1539395 - in reply to #1539356
MOnster
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Shut the fuck up, if terrorism can happen in a big city and be normal, surely big tower block fires can as well? So this tower block was on the known list like the terrorists, what's the fucking difference to the mayor of London, shit happens.
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14 June 2017 12:08 Post ID: #1539396 - in reply to #1539356
Legend MO
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They have now got to look to install sprinkler systems & extractor fans that kick in on the stairwells & floor landings in every high rise blocks then that would help when things like this happen they spent £10 mill doing this block up surely someone would have thought what if there is a fire ?
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14 June 2017 12:58 Post ID: #1539397 - in reply to #1539395
Legend MO
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numbernine - 14/6/2017 11:42

Shut the fuck up, if terrorism can happen in a big city and be normal, surely big tower block fires can as well? So this tower block was on the known list like the terrorists, what's the fucking difference to the mayor of London, shit happens.


THIS
And khan is a cunt!
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14 June 2017 13:26 Post ID: #1539399 - in reply to #1539356
Supreme MO
50002000100025
Khan is guilty of lots of things, but linking him to a tragedy like
this makes you the cunts.
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14 June 2017 13:38 Post ID: #1539400 - in reply to #1539356
MOjo
20001000
I have never attended anything like that in 30 years. London building regs are very strict and that building clearly did not meet those standards.

You should be safe in your flat under normal circumstances because fires are restricted to one flat or area and London has good fire cover.

News said Khan had made it a major incident.... NO he bloody well did not! The senior fire officer is in charge and would have instigated major incident procedure.

I wonder what those living in the block behind are thinking?
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14 June 2017 13:45 Post ID: #1539401 - in reply to #1539374
Supreme MO
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Jesus Christ, that is a shocking report that highlighted the risk of a major incident/fire.

The cnts that ignored the residents and covered up the problems will be sitting somewhere in an office crying into their coffee. Long prison sentences await.
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14 June 2017 13:48 Post ID: #1539402 - in reply to #1539399
MOnster
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midway lion - 14/6/2017 15:26

Khan is guilty of lots of things, but linking him to a tragedy like
this makes you the cunts.


I'm not linking him to the cause of the event but the stupid statements he comes out with.

Edited by numbernine 14/6/2017 13:49
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14 June 2017 14:18 Post ID: #1539406 - in reply to #1539396
Supreme MO
5000100025
Wall loyal - 14/6/2017 13:08

They have now got to look to install sprinkler systems & extractor fans that kick in on the stairwells & floor landings in every high rise blocks then that would help when things like this happen they spent £10 mill doing this block up surely someone would have thought what if there is a fire ?


Sprinklers are not the answer in buildings such as this. The list of reasons why is long, but, please just take it from me that is true.

Passive fire protection measures failed here. (big time)
If somebody does not do jail time, there has not been justice.
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14 June 2017 14:43 Post ID: #1539408 - in reply to #1539371
Supreme MO
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FireWall - 14/6/2017 10:43

BigPaul - 14/6/2017 08:21

Self assessment and FB cuts had to come home to roost.
The fire resistance qualites of the cladding look very dodgy.


BP,

Without the cuts would it have made any difference? Does a building of this size have an L1 or L2 system fitted retrospectively? Is that even practical?

Have you ever attended anything like or close to this? I can't think of a worse fire in the UK, or of a worse way to go.


It is possible that there was no fire alarm system at all. And highly unlikely there was AFD.
That sound outrageous, but:-
The building was not designed to be evacuated en masse, so no need to alert everyone about a fire, only those adjacent.
All 600 odd residents resorting to a single staircase at the same time was never in the plans.
Unfortunately, the basic principle of structural fire protection failed in this case. Any fire in a flat should have stayed in the room of origin for at least 30 mins, more likely 1hr. That should have allowed plenty of time to deal with the fire without any spread at all.
Also, the maintenance issues and false alarms with AFD makes them unsuitable for accommodation such as this.

FB tactics would normally be to set up a bridgehead above and below the fire, and attack it from both sides using the protected shaft. i.e. the staircase/lift shaft.
Unfortunately, it had all gone Pete Tong LONG before they even got there.

As with all these things, a chain of events led to this, and an inquiry will be necessary to find out what the links were in this particular chain.

Two things stand out for me:-
1.Surface spread of flame on the outside of the building simply should not happen.
2. Once you have lost the integrity of the protected shaft, your are fucked! Especially if it is the only one!! That is equally true for people trying to escape and firefighters trying to gain entry.


To answer your question FW,
I went to some VERY big fires with no loss of life, and I went to many house fires with up to 5 people dead. But, never a combination like this.
Fire crews were on a hiding to nothing.
Most of my service was in Kent but I was in London for 2 years (1985-87)
Not many high rises in Kent.

The cuts I was referring to were not operational. You could have had 100 pumps there at 1am, it would have made no difference.
I meant fire safety inspections, self regulation, and cuts to local authority building control departments. It is all these cuts that come back to cost lives.
If you cut your house insurance, you are laughing kit bags till you have a fire. That is what seems to have happened here.

Very sad for all concerned. I fear there will be many more bodies.
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14 June 2017 14:47 Post ID: #1539409 - in reply to #1539401
GeroniMO
20002525
champs08 - 14/6/2017 13:45

Jesus Christ, that is a shocking report that highlighted the risk of a major incident/fire.

The cnts that ignored the residents and covered up the problems will be sitting somewhere in an office crying into their coffee. Long prison sentences await.


Yes, that report is awful.
I should think the Landlords will be banged up eventually, after years of ballshit, lies and endless enquiries. Would that be the local council ?


Edited by Kryan Bing 14/6/2017 14:49
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14 June 2017 15:18 Post ID: #1539413 - in reply to #1539356
MOjo
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The argument of responsibility for this is likely to go on for years, the only bits I/we know is that report, which in itself is damning enough and hearsay on the refurb works.

The landlords will initially be in the cross hairs followed by the specifiers of the material on the refurb, if that was responsible (sort of looked like it) probably not the contractors as they would have been following the spec.

This isn't about winners and loser, however the lawyers will fill their boots, think of the insurance claim that will come out of this. These lot will either gunning for someone or trying to get out of it.

I would have thought corporate manslaughter will be considered, that is if they can actually pin it on someone. No doubt it is down to cuts so the LA will try and dodge that particular bullet.
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14 June 2017 15:22 Post ID: #1539414 - in reply to #1539400
MOjo
20001000252525
HappyLion - 14/6/2017 13:38

I have never attended anything like that in 30 years. London building regs are very strict and that building clearly did not meet those standards.

You should be safe in your flat under normal circumstances because fires are restricted to one flat or area and London has good fire cover.

News said Khan had made it a major incident.... NO he bloody well did not! The senior fire officer is in charge and would have instigated major incident procedure.

I wonder what those living in the block behind are thinking?


Sorry Happy I forgot about your past life and addressed the questions to BP.
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14 June 2017 15:33 Post ID: #1539416 - in reply to #1539356
MOjo
20001000252525
If it is proven that the fire was able to spread because of the rainclear systems that were clad on the external, then that is going to give a pretty major headache to lots of other buildings that have been covered.

There are loads of buildings that are 30-50 yrs old that have been tarted up in this way over the last decade or so. Landlord-owners of these buildings should be or will be asking questions.

Edited by FireWall 14/6/2017 15:45
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14 June 2017 15:44 Post ID: #1539417 - in reply to #1539356
MOnster
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Not just UK, all across Europe due to EU funding. I still don't think the pvc windows are much better either. They were free (with supplemental payment) across Eastern Europe too.
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14 June 2017 16:51 Post ID: #1539421 - in reply to #1539356
Supreme MO
5000100025
The thing about the windows Numbernine is yes, they may melt when subjected to heat, but they are unlikely to spread flame across the outside of a building from flat to flat.

Surface spread of flame is a test applied to building materials. However, I'm hearing that it was not the material itself, but the void behind it that allowed the fire to spread.
Was it tested simply as a lump of material? Or as a sample installation. Very important difference.
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