Millwall Forum - Barnsley bigger club than Millwall?
Vital Football

Latest Millwall FC News

Welcome to the Millwall Fans Forum

Vital Football on FacebookVital Football on TwitterVital Football via RSS Feed
Not logged in.
( Login | register | forgotten password )
Random quote: He likes Cocaine, Booze and Prostitues shame his wife didn't - Charlie Sheen
- (Added by: MillWall Rouffian)
Current Poll (see more polls)
Brentford MotM
Suggested By: Site Staff
Archer8%
McLaughlin5%
Hutchinson13%
Cooper8%
Meredith1%
Wallace26%
Tunnicliffe1%
Saville1%
Ferguson2%
O'Brien5%
Gregory13%
Sub - Elliott6%
Sub - Onyedinma11%
Vital Football Comment
Vital Members League Table
RankNamePoints
1.waterloowacker333
2.ParisWall222
3.kevrelles195
4.midway lion180
5.Kryan Bing113
6.whiskylion98
7.lionheart4884
8.FireWall79
9.bazzwall66
10.numbernine63
Write for Vital Football
Breaking League News
Jump to forum:
Pages (3): 1 2
3
Barnsley bigger club than Millwall?
03 October 2017 17:34 Post ID: #1556100 - in reply to #1556007
MOjo
2000500100252525
Moody - 3/10/2017 09:30

So they say on their forum.

Now, I know this 'willy waving' stuff has never really interested most Millwall fans. We have always just considered ourselves as the knock-about neighbourhood club off the Old Kent Road. However, as a Historian these kinds of perspectives have interested me, as I like to know whether it's true or not. After a conversation on here once with Whisky I was inspired to go out and look at every single club that has ever played in the Football League and work-out what division they belonged in based on how many seasons they had played at that level compared to others.

However, you have to factor in the fact that the majority of southern clubs did not join the FL until 1920/21, as they were playing in the Southern League, which had rivalled the FL in terms of competition for a long time - as proved by Millwall's two runs to the FA Cup Semi-Finals and defeats of at the time northern giants like Preston NE, Everton and Aston Villa, as well as runs by Southampton and Tottenham's victory in 1901, the season after Millwall & Southampton had fought out a Semi-Final.

Therefore, the fairest reflection of relative status is to compare clubs from when the Fourth Division was introduced in 1958/59. As this also negates the tricky problem of comparing clubs that played in the Third Division (North) and Third Division (South). You could call the post 1958 period the 'modern football' era; especially as this is when the maximum wage was abolished etc. It throws up some (sic) interesting results...

The football clubs that have played the vast majority (over 80%) of that period in the top tier are Arsenal, Everton, Manchester United, Spurs, Liverpool, Chelsea (not as 'new' money as many believe), West Ham United, Aston Villa, Manchester City & Newcastle United.

The clubs that have spent the vast majority of that period in what is now the Championship are Cardiff City and Charlton Athletic. Bristol Rovers are League One through & through, with Rochdale the most League Two club out there.

As for Barnsley being 'bigger' than Millwall. Well, funny enough both clubs have spent exactly the same amount of seasons (31 seasons) in the Second Tier since the introduction of four tiers in 1958/59. Making both clubs predominantly second tier level clubs.

To split them in that period you could look at the following factors:

Millwall spent two seasons in the top flight, compared to Barnsley's one season.

Millwall's highest ever FL finish is 10th. Barnsley's is 19th.

Barnsley has played 10 seasons of bottom tier football; compared to Millwall's 5 seasons.

Millwall have reached two FA Cup Semi-Finals, one FA Cup Final and the UEFA Cup in that period; compared to Barnsley's one FA Cup Semi-Final appearance in that period.

The average attendance of both clubs is very similar in that time too:
Millwall: 9,860

Barnsley: 9,204

To be fair to Barnsley, they did win the FA Cup in 1912.

So, if you did a truly historical comparison (allowing southern clubs are at a disadvantage due to the Southern League), it would look like this (percentage is only fair way to do it):

Millwall:
Top Tier: 2.2% of FL history.
Second Tier: 45.5%
Third Tier: 47.7%
Fourth Tier: 5.5%

Barnsley:
Top Tier: 0.92% of FL history
Second Tier: 68.5%
Third Tier: 21.3%
Fourth Tier: 9.2%

*Remembering that Barnsley spent 22 consecutive seasons in a division that they could not get relegated from. Meanwhile, Millwall were winning the Southern League, which as mentioned was every bit as competitive as the FL.

Highest ever average attendance:

Millwall: 27,387* (1938-39)
*The Lions have averaged over 20,000 on eight occasions & close to on a further six.

Barnsley: 21,262* (1947-48)
*Only time Barnsley have averaged over 20,000 in a season.

Away support (last full season together 2015/16):

Millwall: 851

Barnsley: 1,213

This in a season that Millwall did not play one derby game, compared to three for Barnsley. In a division where only four of our away fixtures were south of Birmingham. Factoring in that Millwall also have a members only and all-ticket away policy.

Also historically in Cups:

Millwall:
FA Cup record: FA Cup Runners-Up (2004), FA Cup Semi-Finalists (1900, 1903, 1937, 2004, 2013)

Barnsley:
FA Cup record: FA Cup Winners (1912), FA Cup Runners-Up (1910), Semi-Finalists (1910, 1912, 2008)

Millwall:
League Cup record: Quarter-Finals (1995, 1977, 1974)

Barnsley:
League Cup record: Quarter Finals (1982)

Millwall:
Football League Trophy record: Winners (1983), Runners-Up (1999)

Barnsley:
Football League Trophy record: Winners (2016)

Millwall:
UEFA Cup record: 1st Round (2004-05) v Ferencváros 1–1 (H), 3–1 (A)

----------------------------------------------------------

This is why (like a geek) I like looking at these things. I would say that Barnsley are in no way bigger or more successful than Millwall - despite how confident they are in that fact.

Barnsley fans, a lot of what is posted on this forum is tongue in cheek. You won't find many Millwall fans that think we have a divine right to beat anybody or think that you all live in houses with no running water. Try not to take life so seriously - especially not football! Furthermore, all our idiots at Wembley were condemned on here - you will not find a single decent Millwall fan or even old school Millwall hooligan who condones attacking innocent fans of any club.

Anyways, believe it or not, I do have a day job to do :wave:


Very impressive mate. Mild autism?
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
03 October 2017 17:47 Post ID: #1556102 - in reply to #1556007
Legend MO
2000200050010025
Very possibly.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
03 October 2017 17:58 Post ID: #1556106 - in reply to #1556102
MOjo
2000500100252525
Moody - 3/10/2017 17:47

Very possibly.
:

Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
03 October 2017 18:02 Post ID: #1556107 - in reply to #1556098
Supreme MO
500020001000100100100252525
FireWall - 3/10/2017 17:09

Suppose the Bull's Head and Boot Inn are a little pricey for you?


Not really mate.

The Boots is more food/accommodation, but has its own micro brewery.

The Bulls Head is rammed every weekend during term-time with parents visiting their kids at The School. Decent pizzas and beer garden, if that's your thing.

Good restaurant upstairs, but again, always busy.

Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
03 October 2017 18:45 Post ID: #1556111 - in reply to #1556036
GeroniMO
10005001001001001002525
Moody, i would just like to say, great piece of work, that's all.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
03 October 2017 19:27 Post ID: #1556115 - in reply to #1556007
MOjo
20001000252525
Interesting stuff Moody but as always when people work out how big or successful a club is they tend to leave out an important fact of how many players have either come through the youth ranks or are at least local within a five mile radius of the ground and gone on to play at a higher or international level.
Clubs like ours only survived by producing and selling these players on. I would guess we have produced far more of these players than them.
Perhaps you can get back to us with the figures
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
03 October 2017 19:46 Post ID: #1556119 - in reply to #1556115
Legend MO
200020001001001002525
wellers_shot - 3/10/2017 19:27

Interesting stuff Moody but as always when people work out how big or successful a club is they tend to leave out an important fact of how many players have either come through the youth ranks or are at least local within a five mile radius of the ground and gone on to play at a higher or international level.
Clubs like ours only survived by producing and selling these players on. I would guess we have produced far more of these players than them.
Perhaps you can get back to us with the figures :tup:


Mick McCarthy for starters: born Barnsley and began his career with some 300 games for them...
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
04 October 2017 10:23 Post ID: #1556157 - in reply to #1556111
Supreme MO
500020001000100100100252525
bazzwall - 3/10/2017 18:45

Moody, i would just like to say, great piece of work, that's all. :clap:


Bloody hell Bazz, please don't encourage him, mate.

Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
04 October 2017 11:02 Post ID: #1556160 - in reply to #1556007
Supreme MO
5000500100100100
in barnsley the inbred sister plating nonces have big club feet, mongs.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
04 October 2017 17:28 Post ID: #1556203 - in reply to #1556160
MOjo
20001000252525
kevrelles - 4/10/2017 11:02

in barnsley the inbred sister plating nonces have big club feet, mongs. :grin:



Post of the year by far.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
04 October 2017 17:37 Post ID: #1556205 - in reply to #1556157
GeroniMO
10005001001001001002525
ParisWall - 4/10/2017 10:23

bazzwall - 3/10/2017 18:45

Moody, i would just like to say, great piece of work, that's all. :clap:


Bloody hell Bazz, please don't encourage him, mate.

:grin:


keep him sweet, if you need a drill down on data he;s your man. Sticks at it like a dog with a bone.
Like post
Like this post
0
Top of the page Bottom of the page
Pages (3): 1 2
3
Jump to forum: