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Just Back
29 October 2017 10:41 Post ID: #1558897 - in reply to #1558891
Legend MO
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liontime - 29/10/2017 09:51

from what I have seen there are no standout teams in this league this year -

it is a very even division , one might say below average -

I watched Cardiff get thoroughly outplayed by Birmingham a few weeks back, so just how good are Cardiff? . It is premature to talk about any side being promoted I think it is possible for any 3 of 14 teams to go up.

This was a good result but performances should not be judged by results - we have a style of play that is effective in its way because the players are clear on their roles and stick to them -

we have enough talent with the new players (and team spirit) within that system to avoid defeat away from home enough to stay up

However no successful team these day plays our way - direct play has its role and is often the best option depending on who one is playing but it has to come with an alternative style within games where ball retention becomes a component. We gave the ball away countless times yesterday in the haste to get it forward quickly when a shorter simpler pass would have meant building play forward as a team with the opportunity for overlaps from full-backs and better dynamics in transition.

This is the tactical limitations we have and why pretend it is not. We need to improve to have a sustainable team in this division beyond this season. Many on here will recall the Division 1 team of guts and glory - work rate and long ball - what happened in the 2nd season ? We did not develop because the style was inflexible and we got sussed - this is what happens and I think is simply what some people are pointing out - this does not make them negative nor blind to what Harris has done for the club.




Liontime, I get exactly what you are saying and I am not saying the performance was perfect.

I have taken some right stick on here in the past by having a go at our long ball tactics and NH's tactical application - even before Parsley joined in the chorus.

However, yesterday was different. They were unbeaten at home, chasing top spot. We had not won away.

It is a not a question of "before we get sussed" as you say: we have been sussed. NH has set his stall out. The Cardiff manager knew exactly to a man how we were going to play, he prepared for it...and yet his side still couldn't break us down. That, to me, suggests our tactics are far from bankrupt. Indeed, with the likes of Tunnicliffe, Savile and Wallace there is much in reserve.

I was in the director's box yesterday on the halfway line quite near the tunnel. And I saw Warnock put his arms around Morison at the end (the same Morison he signed for Leeds from Norwich) and heard him congratulate him and the boys for doing such great job.

And not only we did we get the draw, but what if Gregory hadn't been tripped when through and them down to ten men?

There have been times, as you know from what I have written on here, I have left a ground seething at our excessive long ball game and tactical naivety. Yesterday was not one of them: I felt very proud of each player who wore the white and navy of Millwall.

Now let's work on the training ground and try to mix the game up even more. That will come with confidence. The confidence built on solid displays like yesterday.


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29 October 2017 10:41 Post ID: #1558898 - in reply to #1558886
Legend MO
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whiskylion - 29/10/2017 09:32

Millwall have the best defensive away record in the division - just five goals from 7 games.

That doesn't come about by being tactically bankrupt - a rather shrill and hysterical comment, I'm sad to say.



We have a single defensive pattern that has served us well, but going forward we are still primarily one dimensional.

Away record this season - played 7, lost 4, drawn 3, 2 goals scored, 6 nil returns and 4 points out of a possible 21. Only Birmingham,, Bolton and Burton have performed worse. I'll clarify but stand by my comment, when it comes to ATTACKING teams we are tactically bankrupt. Little variation or imagination in open or dead-ball play.

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29 October 2017 11:25 Post ID: #1558904 - in reply to #1558874
Big MO
1001001001002525
personnel is obviously huge - we struggle to get players that can swing games in an instant because they tend to come with a price tag - how often do you see us score from a spectacular long range shot or individual brilliance - Saville against Reading showed that extra quality that we are missing for the most part - he is a marked man now - as I say, teams see our style and see that he will be the dangerous one from midfield attacking wise and he will have to work harder for his space. Wallace is something of an enigma to me and AOB is what he is - Overall with Morison aging and Gregory prone to miss the way he does, this is not a line-up that cries out goals away from home. We did very well 1st 30 mins of 2nd half = we were on the front foot but you can only press for so long; at some stage you have too be able to keep possession for a while to take the sting out of the game and re-charge. The last 15 mins we resorted to banging it long giving them hope and chances. I think this leaves a bad memory for some as so much good work gets potentially undone and the aesthetic is unpleasant.

This is a familiar failing. If you remember Leeds we dominated and they were down to 10 men yet we still let them create chances in jury time. This is because we do not keep the ball for long enough. The way we defended against QPR with a 2 goal lead was similar in mind set. I think this is a mental disposition. Let defenders defend and carry a midfield threat late in games . Trust the players to keep doing the job they have done the whole match and force teams to defend themselves late in games . We can do that when we are behind , as per Brentford. But we are reluctant to keep 'playing' when drawing away or winning at home. Harris says we invite pressure and we can score on the break - the second goal against Birmingham is perhaps an example, but psychologically I think we retreat too early in games.
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29 October 2017 11:37 Post ID: #1558906 - in reply to #1558874
Supreme MO
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I agree that Archer made 3 excellent stops but what is being overlooked
is the 2 Cardiff's keeper made in the 1st half. It was as much a Neil
Warnock type performance as a Wall one.
Archer...9...Could Scotland have qualified for the World cup with
him in goal ? MOM.
McLaughlan...8...Up against the tricky Hollett, Cardiffs best attacker,
and never faltered, what a signing !
Hutch...8...Could Scotland have qualified for the World cup with
him in defence ? Superb.
Cooper...6..Worrying moments and a bad habit of giving away
unnecessary fouls.
Merry....7..Got stuck in and played his part.
Wallace..6.....Industrious but poor passing and crossing.
Saville....7...Battling performance once again.
Tunnicliffe...7...Improving game-by-game. great ball retention.
O Brien....7..Good 1st half but running on empty towards the end.
Gregory...7...Fabulous running and positional play.
Morison 7....Strong leadership and play throughout.
Eliott......7...Let them know he was there when he came on.
Fergie....7...Helped shore up the left when he came on.
Fred...6....No time to make a difference.
Ref........Gave them the rub of the green 1st half and us the
rub 2nd half.
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29 October 2017 11:51 Post ID: #1558912 - in reply to #1558874
MOjo
2000100025
Ball retention and taking the sting out of the game is something that we don't do that well. We seem to have a pressing game that brings a certain amount of success, and a defending deep game with the hit them on the break.

The problem with the pressing is that you can't keep it up for 90 mins or a season come to that. The defending deep and sometimes too early is a worry, as L-time says it can leave a negative impression.
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29 October 2017 12:07 Post ID: #1558914 - in reply to #1558898
Legend MO
2000200050025
PurleyLion - 29/10/2017 10:41

whiskylion - 29/10/2017 09:32

Millwall have the best defensive away record in the division - just five goals from 7 games.

That doesn't come about by being tactically bankrupt - a rather shrill and hysterical comment, I'm sad to say.



We have a single defensive pattern that has served us well, but going forward we are still primarily one dimensional.

Away record this season - played 7, lost 4, drawn 3, 2 goals scored, 6 nil returns and 4 points out of a possible 21. Only Birmingham,, Bolton and Burton have performed worse. I'll clarify but stand by my comment, when it comes to ATTACKING teams we are tactically bankrupt. Little variation or imagination in open or dead-ball play.



Putney, I know we have our little scraps from time to time but I tend to agree with you far more than I disagree.

However, on this occasional you say we were tactically bankrupt - no initial mention of only our attacking play.

But even then I have to disagree. We kept them very much on their toes, we forced more corners and should have had a Cardiff player sent off in the first minute of the second half when our man was through. Even a number Cardiff supporters in their chat room thought we looked a threat when in possession. Comments like "they were no mugs" and "theres no way Millwall are going down" was pleasing to see.

Actually four clubs have performed "worse" than us on the road - you have missed out QPR. And I repeat: we have the tightest defence with just five conceded in seven away games, including trips to Wolves and Cardiff.

Indeed, of Millwall's seven away games, six are against sides in the top half of the table for their home record alone, only Reading in the bottom half. To me, that is a meritorious fact and one the players can be proud of. Of course we can be more imaginative when moving forward. But let this midfield gel and the defenders find the confidence to mix up the passing a little more.

Come on Parsley. Help yourself to an extra portion of lamb, another roast potato, break into a contented smile and admit that, on reflection, our performance was nothing like as bad as you first thought. And for a newly promoted side...something to be proud of.

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29 October 2017 12:12 Post ID: #1558916 - in reply to #1558898
MOjo
2000100025
PurleyLion - 29/10/2017 10:41

whiskylion - 29/10/2017 09:32

Millwall have the best defensive away record in the division - just five goals from 7 games.

That doesn't come about by being tactically bankrupt - a rather shrill and hysterical comment, I'm sad to say.



We have a single defensive pattern that has served us well, but going forward we are still primarily one dimensional.

Away record this season - played 7, lost 4, drawn 3, 2 goals scored, 6 nil returns and 4 points out of a possible 21. Only Birmingham,, Bolton and Burton have performed worse. I'll clarify but stand by my comment, when it comes to ATTACKING teams we are tactically bankrupt. Little variation or imagination in open or dead-ball play.


Purely,

Thinking about our attacking play, at Forest we attacked them with variety and scored what looked like a good goal from a cross. This effort came after a period of sustained pressure.
Bristol, we sat together if you remember, again a period in the second half where we had them pinned back, Elliot causing them no end of trouble and hitting the post. Brentford, after wasting an hour not playing very well, with Elliot on we again attacked with intensity and again scored a goal only to have it disallowed. You are correct in that we didn't score in those games and only had one point to show for our efforts.

Along with the above our attacking play against QPR, Norwich, Reading and our second goal against Brum can hardly be described as bankrupt. Alright I've picked the bright spots from those games and I can't pretend that we are a free scoring free flowing easy on the eye side, neither are we lacking imagination.
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29 October 2017 13:00 Post ID: #1558921 - in reply to #1558906
Supreme MO
500020001000500
midway lion - 29/10/2017 11:37

I agree that Archer made 3 excellent stops but what is being overlooked
is the 2 Cardiff's keeper made in the 1st half. It was as much a Neil
Warnock type performance as a Wall one.
Archer...9...Could Scotland have qualified for the World cup with
him in goal ? MOM.
McLaughlan...8...Up against the tricky Hollett, Cardiffs best attacker,
and never faltered, what a signing !
Hutch...8...Could Scotland have qualified for the World cup with
him in defence ? Superb.
Cooper...6..Worrying moments and a bad habit of giving away
unnecessary fouls.
Merry....7..Got stuck in and played his part.
Wallace..6.....Industrious but poor passing and crossing.
Saville....7...Battling performance once again.
Tunnicliffe...7...Improving game-by-game. great ball retention.
O Brien....7..Good 1st half but running on empty towards the end.
Gregory...7...Fabulous running and positional play.
Morison 7....Strong leadership and play throughout.
Eliott......7...Let them know he was there when he came on.
Fergie....7...Helped shore up the left when he came on.
Fred...6....No time to make a difference.
Ref........Gave them the rub of the green 1st half and us the
rub 2nd half.


Seems that Cooper is in a similar situation to Craig was around this time last season. Playing alongside a CB who is putting in more impressive performances.

The main differences being Coopers 6 starts this season have resulted in just 5 goals conceded (2 within extra time) & Cooper has not had the fans turn on him.
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29 October 2017 13:06 Post ID: #1558922 - in reply to #1558878
Supreme MO
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King of The Jungle - 29/10/2017 03:33

Agree whisky. I thought we did very well. Moro really should've stuck that 1 on 1 away but the workrate of our boys was terrific and Archer was on absolute top form. I can't really think of a goalkeeper who is so inconsistent. All players have dips in form but Archer always seems to be one of two extremes - either absolutely fantastic or absolutely awful; fortunately today he eas the former. Although limited in time i thought Elliot looked a handful when he came on too.


Archer has been consistently good this season. Otherwise King or Martin would have replaced him.

His only howler was against Ipswich which was a bit of a fluke goal.
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30 October 2017 09:13 Post ID: #1558962 - in reply to #1558874
GeroniMO
200025
the simple fact is , Cardiff although could have gone top of the league, could not raise their game enough to beat the mighty Lions.
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30 October 2017 10:22 Post ID: #1558971 - in reply to #1558962
Supreme MO
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bazzwall - 30/10/2017 09:13

the simple fact is , Cardiff although could have gone top of the league, could not raise their game enough to beat the mighty Lions.


Exactly, Bazz.

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30 October 2017 11:24 Post ID: #1558980 - in reply to #1558962
Legend MO
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bazzwall - 30/10/2017 09:13

the simple fact is , Cardiff although could have gone top of the league, could not raise their game enough to beat the mighty Lions.



More to the point, Bazz, Millwall didn't let them raise anything....

And that is where we got the game plan spot on.
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30 October 2017 11:57 Post ID: #1558983 - in reply to #1558874
Big MO
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https://www.newsatden.co.uk/64863-millwall-boss-established-in-the-c...

told you we aren't good enough away !! Even Sir Neil admits it

I think we didn't win any of the last 7 in the relegation year - so that is 14 Championship away matches without a win

perhaps Tuesday is the day
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30 October 2017 11:58 Post ID: #1558984 - in reply to #1558874
Sir MO
500100100100100
That crunching challenge by Hutchinson that sent Hollett flying off the pitch was as good as watching any goal...

Edited by Melbourne Lion 30/10/2017 11:59
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30 October 2017 12:08 Post ID: #1558990 - in reply to #1558984
Legend MO
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Melbourne Lion - 30/10/2017 11:58

That crunching challenge by Hutchinson that sent Hollett flying off the pitch was as good as watching any goal...



Agreed 100%. Other than Archer's diving save, it was my highlight of the match....!!!

Took me back to the days of Kitch!!!
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30 October 2017 13:46 Post ID: #1559005 - in reply to #1558874
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As I said, they have better in Scotland ?
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30 October 2017 13:48 Post ID: #1559007 - in reply to #1559005
Supreme MO
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midway lion - 30/10/2017 13:46

As I said, they have better in Scotland ?


Who?
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